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If you’ve ever asked the questions when and where did the “truth” start, you might have heard some of the following:

HOW?
It was started by Wm Irvine
It was started by a Group of Men
It was restored, restarted, revived, reborn, raised up again

WHERE?
It was Started In Ireland, British Isles, America
It started in Ireland
It Started in the New Testament Days -- Jesus is our Founder

WHEN?
It started in 1897 - at the turn of the 20th century
It is from The Beginning

OTHER EXPLANATIONS:
Evasive Explanations: Analogies, Diversions, Minimizing, Denials & Omissions
The Stump Theory
This White Horse Theory
The History isn't Traceable

You might also have heard various stories, explanations, analogies or even denials of the stories of others.

Workers often emphasize how their method and doctrine is the same the world over. So it is surprising when their answers to these questions are not the same--far from it. There Questioner is given a wide variety of answers--even answers that conflict with other workers' answers. To the question WHO STARTED THIS WAY? You may be told it was God, Jesus, Wm Irvine, a group of men, or that they don’t know.

As to WHEN WAS IT STARTED? Or what was the start up date? The answers range from before world began; when Jesus sent out the disciples 2 and 2; in the New Testament; around 1900; it was planned by God before the foundation of the world; or I don’t know.

For a location for WHERE DID IT START? You may be told in Heaven, in Ireland, in Scotland, in Galilee, Armenia, Switzerland, Italy, in the heart of God, or I don’t know.

Perhaps the question that generates the most variety of answers is WHO WAS WILLIAM IRVINE? You maybe told that he was just a worker; a man used of God; a prophet; a man highly favored of God; a man God “raised up,” or I never heard of him. In attempting to discover WHAT BECAME OF WILLIAM IRVINE? you may hear that he lost his anointing, became mentally unbalanced; had the misfortune to lose his mind; was a womanizer; became too proud and lifted up in himself; and had to be eliminated, removed, ousted, excommunicated, etc. Just HOW WAS IT STARTED? Some say it was by a man’s revelation; others say it was restarted or restored by a man or some men; while others maintain that Jesus started it in the New Testament. WHO DID WM. IRVINE HEAR IT FROM? The answers are from Willie Gill’s family; from his sister; from the underground remnant; and from revelation from God.

The following are quotes from workers and others from all over. They demonstrate the variety of answers you might hear.

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HOW...?

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"It Was started by Wm Irvine"

"...my remembrance of how for several years at Special meeting time, I remember a favorite subject of Wm. Jamieson (when the Workers would be gathered in the home) was to tell us that as far back as we could trace this fellowship was unto Wm. Irvine. He spoke openly and freely of all which he knew of Wm. Irvine, etc. What he told us was unto enough people that it would be common knowledge statewide."  (Donald Fisher letter to Fred Miller, circa 1982 )

1995: New Brunswick worker:  Wm Irvine was the man who "brought order to this way."

"Our mission was started by William Irwin, a Scotchman, seven or eight years ago. Others followed him. I myself was a Civil Servant in Dublin. I resigned my post, sold all that I had and gave to the poor, and went out to preach." Wilson McClung, Overseer of New Zealand, Feb. 16, 1905 Impartial Reporter)

"Since early workers followed a Scottish preacher in Ireland before the turn of the 20th century, they have spent their lives traveling from home to home with little more than their clothes." William Lewis, Minneapolis Star Tribune, Minnesota 11/2/86

"With regard to your question about William Irvine, there is no need for us to be 'brave and honest enough' to acknowledge the part he had in this Fellowship in the early part of this century, as there is no secret about it. He was not alone, of course, as there were other good and faithful men there also, but he no doubt had the leading part. However, when it comes to acknowledging him as being the 'Founder' the answer is definitely 'No', for the simple reason that he was not. The Truth of God has been from the beginning - Psalm 119:89 tells us 'For ever, O Lord, Thy word is settled in Heaven.'...  We are glad that in our day and age God can revive His work and is still sending forth those who will go as Jesus commanded to carry the same Gospel into the world. But our only 'Founder' is Christ, He is the cornerstone, the only rock on which we seek to build and we do not need or believe in anything else." Ken Paginton Letter to Kathleen Overby, 5/25/95

John Long's Journal confirms that Wm Irvine was the founder of the 2x2 sect.

"Irvine's founding role is of little consequence, for we alone follow the true pattern of the original apostles, and the early church." Gordon McNabb (in "The Secret Sect")

"William Irvine began to think HE started the truth. He was instrumental, but what was born in our hearts was of God. Some began to call us Cooneyites which wasn't the truth either. We preach that our faith began on the shores of Galilee." Older worker from southern USA

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Verification by workers that The Secret Sect contains the true story:

TTT Editor's Note: The Secret Sect is a book written by Doug & Helen Parker, published in 1982. The forerunner of The Secret Sect was a pamphlet titled A Spiritual Fraud, which was mailed out to numerous workersall over the world. Parker's book gives the details surrounding the group's beginning and evidence showing that Wm Irvine was their Founder. The following friends and workers endorse Parker's book as being true.

A brother worker who read The Secret Sect, stated that it's factually sound from what he already knew, except for a few minor details; his knowledge came from older workers who personally knew William Irvine.

An ex-worker said when he was first in the work, he received a long document (probably A Spiritual Fraud by Doug Parker) containing information about the beginning of this fellowship.  When he asked his older companion Fred Kinglake whether or not it was true, Fred said, "I can't say that it's not true."

In the August 18, 1983, Skagit Valley Herald , serving NW Washington, reporters asked Tharold Sylvester (deceased Western USA Overseer)  if he denied the historical account of the group's origins found in the book The Secret Sect , and he replied, "We don't deny that."

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It was started by a group of of men (rather than ONE man)

"...not by William Irvine, but rather by many men getting together and deciding to really follow the New Testament teaching of Jesus." William Peterson, Deceased Kansas & Oklahoma Worker Overseer.

"We know that it began with a group of men in the British Isles around the turn of the century. That's as far as we have been able to trace it." Walter Pollock, Worker, Spokesman Review, June 5, 1983.

"The church was formed at the turn of the century in Great Britain. A number of people in England, Scotland, and Ireland discovered they were missing something spiritually...the Lord brought them together, and they found they saw eye to eye on the ministry."  Walter Pollock, Worker in 1984 Coeur d'Alene Press, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

1942 Statement by George Walker to U.A. Selective Service  (FIRST Eastern USA Overseer, deceased): "We take this opportunity to state that during the closing years of the last century and the first years of this century a number of people in the British Isles and in America were exercised in heart and mind, through their study of the Scriptures, in regard to the methods of preaching and worship in the several churches of which they were then members. They were deeply concerned about spiritual things, and became fully convinced that there should be a return to the methods and purposes taught and carried out by Christ and His first disciples. This conviction led to frequent earnest conversations and studies on the subject, which in turn led to religious meetings, and in due time a number of these people went forth to devote their lives to the preaching of the Gospel".

"Irvine and others received revelation from God and then were subsequently used as instruments to preach the message of the Lord Jesus. As they reached various parts of the world, they encountered others who received the same revelation--some prior to their arrival, some upon hearing their message--and fellowship was created between them."

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It was restored, regenerated, restarted, revived, reborn, resurrected, resurfaced, raised up again
( all of which mean to bring back after an interval or decline. )

Feb, 94:  Sharon Williamson, Illinois sister worker, stated in Rockport, IL gospel meeting: "Yes, William Irvine started this way; it was a divine revelation from God. He was raised up to revive the truth just like the Word of God was for 400 years..."

1979:  Elder worker preached at Olympia convention that "ever so often the "truth" dies out, and God seeks for another man to bring it back into the world."

In 1984 Donald Karnes, Worker, wrote from Germany: "Two outstanding events mark the 20th century: 2 rebirths. First, the rebirth of the Truth. God pouring out His spirit upon all flesh. The resurgence of His work in the world…Second: the rebirth of the Jewish national out of the ruin heaps of Europe. These two events are going on at the same time. "

"I believe it was started from God back in the very beginning of time. And between Malachi and Matthew there is no record of God's people, you might say, but I don't feel God's Way was ever done away with. I feel that God has had a way on the earth since before the foundation of the earth. I don't believe William Irvine is the beginner of it."
"Do you know of anyone prior to him?"
"No, I don't."  (Visit with Bea Moonkini, Worker, 1985)

"In the last writings of John, 60 years after Christ, (when John was 90 years of age, the Gospel, three Epistles and Revelation were all written on the Isle of Patmos just before he died) he gave us a wonderful glimpse into the future. From that time until our day and generation we believe there was a terrible falling away. You wonder if there were many people serving God when Christ came. When He came there was a revival. We are glad in our day and generation there has been a revival of God's truth in our day.  If there is anything to be thankful for, it's that I am living in this present day and generation in this 20th Century, when God's Way and Truth are established on the earth, and for the most part I think there are more people serving God in His true and living Way today than since Adam and Eve...If He had come in the Dark Ages, there would have been nobody to welcome Him. (Arnold Brown 1989 York Convention #2)

The church had no beginning other than Jesus; and those who follow God can do so by taking up His word again. The turning back of the friends and workers to the way of Jesus in the early 1900's was like the turning back of Israel to the law of God again.

June, 2002, Paul Sharp spoke of the origins at Walla Walla Convention, calling it a "regeneration."

"Wm Irvine was allowed to rediscover what was lost."

"We do not have to prove the fact that this has been in the world since the time of Christ. More of a mistake as I see to try to do so, to prove something that we can’t and don’t need to. Jesus said, ‘By their fruits ye shall know them.’ When you go to a seed shop to buy a packet of seed we don’t ask, ‘Is this the same as was in the garden of Eden?’ We know that it has to be because seed brings forth after its own kind only. We have an example of a break, from Malachi to the time of Christ, about 400 years we have no written record of anyone in being serving God, no prophet, but when Christ was to come, then the seed was in the hearts of (4) people needed to start it again. For the record, Uncle Willie (Jamieson) was really my Dad’s uncle, so my grandfather was his brother. Grandfather told us of the early days as would John Hardie tell and also Uncle Willie--but not in mtgs. John in his letters told us of that which was from the beginning and he did not try to prove it, as we have to have faith to believe. Hope this is clear and perhaps some little help on the subject." (Ray Jamieson to Paul Abenroth, Sept 3, 1994)

"Just as in the Old Testament times, so in the centuries since, there have been times of seemingly dormant period when "Truth," for different reasons was not there on the surface to be seen. However, the seeds that Jesus has sown have never died out and there are documented [I believe, from reliable sources] of instances through the centuries from different areas of the world, that the way that Jesus planned has never died out."

"Wm Irvine, George Walker and Irvine Weir were the first to come over to the USA, but they certainly did not "start" what we know as "the truth." They were "seed bearers" and that seed came from God, NOT man. Possibly the "good seed" was "in the barn" for a period of time, but we don't really know. There is a record, but it is kept in Heaven, and not in earthly journals.

"Meetings in their current form started somewhere around the turn of the century and are a rebirth of the early New Testament church meeting in homes."

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GAP...before 1897

A 20th century start-up date leaves a 1900 year GAP between Jesus sending out the disciples 2 and 2 and the year 1897 when Wm Irvine started his ministry. Beginning today and traveling BACK in the time and history of the 2x2 fellowship, the trail leads back to 1897-99, Ireland, and a man named William Irvine. On the other hand, if we start at the beginning of humanity, with Adam and  Eve, and continue to follow God's way, we arrive at the current year.  The two roads do not meet.  If the two were one and the same road or way, they should meet. However, there is a GAP between the road of God's way traced forward from "the beginning" and Irvine's fellowship traced backward from the present. There are some standard  explanations given for the gap.

"Also we are sometimes asked about the period between...the first century and the present twentieth century. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. We have no written records on earth of God's work in the world during this period. God's records are written in heaven, Malachi 3:16, Luke 10:20, Rev. 20:12. Any who would suggest a written genealogy record is necessary between the first and twentieth century would fall into the category of 1 Tim. 1:3-4: 'that thou might charge some that they teach no other doctrine. Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.'" Click here to read entire sermon: Dan Hilton, Worker,1/1/84 Burlington, WA Sp. Mtg. [Note: The history of a fellowship that is approx. 100 years old, hardly qualifies as "endless genealogy."]

"Some say that God's truth was revived or started over or began in the early 1900's.  This serpent raises its ugly head periodically."  Sherlene Oldham, Ex-worker, Letter 1991 to Cherie Kropp.

"It's not God's way to record such things."

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GAP - Willie Pollock's Stump Explanation:  

      "First of all, I will tell you what I teach. I tell people that the Faith is a continuation of New Testament days.  The word continuation means two things. It can mean there is no break and it also means a break in time no matter how long the break is, if you return to the same thing.  We have what was in existence 2,000 years ago. I believe there was a break between N.T. times & today, but the same word & work has been revived.  A wheat seed can remain on the shelf for 1,000 years and then be planted & grow & it will produce wheat.
      "If someone said there was a continual apostolic succession I doubt if that is accurate, but their statement does not change my salvation and relationship with God.  Even if a person lied, that would have nothing to do with the Truth or our salvation. Truth does not have to be in people (although hopefully it always is) because it is in God & in Christ & in his eternal word. In Ps 11:3, if foundations are destroyed, the righteous would have nothing to build on.  The temple of Solomon had huge foundation stones laid under the surface and the temple was later burned but likely the foundation stones were still there when the temple was rebuilt in the book of Ezra.  We know where to build today because Christ laid the foundation stones & they are still there.  Everett Swanson, Canadian Worker, communication w/Cindy Brown 1995
      "There has NOT been a continuity from Jesus time until now, but we feel there was a stump left some-where--but today, there is a tree.  God's work may have to go underground again, but there is a tree of fellowship today."  Willie Pollock, Worker, 1988 Glenn Valley, British Columbia convention.
      "I don't want to drop a bombshell on you by saying this--but there has not always been a tree--not even in the Bible.  But we believe that somewhere there has always been a root, a stump of Truth.  We can't explain it.  By faith, we accept it.  If we need too much explanation, we don't have faith.  During the time of the captivity, there was no tree--no true worship and sacrifice.  But Daniel prayed toward Jerusalem like a stump.  We don't read of any tree during the period of time between the Old and New Testaments, but when Jesus came, we read of six people.  It sprouted again.  In our day, there is a tree that is flourishing."  Click here to read entire sermon: Willie Pollock, Worker, 1988 Gilroy #1 CA Conv.

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GAP - White Horse:

Some cling to the slim hope and possibility that the fellowship was a continuation of the churches in Paul's day because it went "underground", or "into the woods."  Imagine that you are reading a diary you found in your attic of one of your ancestors.  They write about driving along a highway by a certain forest that is 2000 miles long and 2000 miles wide.  They mentioned they saw a beautiful white horse in a pasture beside the road, and as they watched, he trotted off and disappeared in the nearby forest.   Now, 2000 years later, you read this account in their diary. That evening you are driving on this same road, at the other end of the forest mentioned in the diary (2000 miles away from where your ancestors watched the horse enter the forest) and you see a white horse come out of the forest!  Is it the same identical white horse?   Can you be absolutely certain it is even a descendant of the white horse who entered the forest 2000 miles back down the road and 2,000 years earlier???  The two horses have one thing in common - they were both white.  The churches in Paul's day and the 2x2 meetings today have only one thing in common - they meet in homes.  There are thousands of white horses in this world.  There are thousands of groups who have and do meet in homes.  Being white or meeting in homes does not PROVE anything.  Certainly not that the 2x2 church meetings are a continuation of churches of the New Testament.

An analogy cannot disprove historical facts. Since white horses and belief systems are NOT in the same class, the value of this analogy is for illustration purposes only.  It shows a far-fetched, remote possibility, but provides nothing more.  There is no evidence of the existence of the 2x2 ministers and church in the home fellowship before William Irvine. Furthermore, there is much evidence to the contrary which proves it started in 1897-1901. Some believe if something has not been proven true, that proves it is false. Some reason the converse of this, in this way: "You can't prove it's not true, so I have good reason to believe it IS true."  As "good" reasons go, this one is poor and the chances of it being true are pretty slim.  It's practically wishful thinking, or self deception. If something cannot be proven true, all that is known is just that:  it has not yet been proven true or false.  It is unknown, and no (valid) inferences can be made from it.  What other alternatives can you think of besides a temporary disappearance (gap) for no fathomable reason??

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GAP - The History isn't Traceable...

As near as I can figure, since there are no church records in recent times, the truth came from England at the turn of the century. Jill Christiansen, Worker, Santee conv. 1980.

"We cannot trace this back through the ages! And that is good, for if we could, that would destroy our faith." Iowa gospel meeting, 1995

"Lewis (William) says there is no one founder or group of founders that this church...can trace its lineage to. 'Not to my knowledge,' Lewis says. 'We don't treat genealogical records as being purposeful. What would it mean to me if I could prove I'm a descendant of Abraham?'" quote of William Lewis, (deceased Southern USA Overseer) The Sunday Sun, Georgetown, Texas, July 14, 1991

"Don't worry about tracing the truth back. The Jews could trace to Abraham and it didn't mean a thing. God can raise up people from stones...we don't need to trace it back. When we see God's work in people, we know is it from him." Arnold Brown, Sept., 1988 York, NE conv. 

"We don't have any genealogy.   We don't have to have...God could raise up people if there had been a thousand years of no one professing. Titus and Timothy speak about old wives fables, etc. We don't have to trace people back to Christ, etc., today.  Those that are God's children don't have to trace their genealogy back to Abraham.  The faith that Abraham had makes us children of Abraham."  (Arnold Brown 1989 York Convention #2)

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WHERE...?

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It Started in the British Isles & America:

According to the 1942 Statement by George Walker to U.A. Selective Service (FIRST Eastern USA Overseer, deceased): "We take this opportunity to state that during the closing years of the last century and the first years of this century a number of people in the British Isles and in America .. became fully convinced that there should be a return to the methods and purposes taught and carried out by Christ and His first disciples...and in due time a number of these people went forth to devote their lives to the preaching of the Gospel".

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It Started in IRELAND:

In 1976, Tharold Sylvester personally arranged for Joshua Gamble from Ireland to make the whole round of conventions on the West Coast in America, including Walla Walla, WA, Gilroy, CA and Casa Grande, AZ conventions, and asked Joshua to publicly mention the subject at each convention, with the purpose of trying to dispel the "continuous unbroken chain" myth. Evidently Tharold thought that the word of someone from "where it all happened" would have more weight. He mentioned William Irvine's name along with the names of several other early workers. Joshua made it clear that there was no continuous ministry going out in this fashion and no recognizable fellowship of this type before the late 1890s. Several have reported hearing Joshua Gamble mention this from the platform. [Joshua Gamble is the uncle of Thomas Gamble, current Ireland Overseer]

"Since early workers followed a Scottish preacher in Ireland before the turn of the 20th century, they have spent their lives traveling from home to home with little more than their clothes, Lewis said." William Lewis, (Southern USA Overseer) quote from in the Minneapolis Star Tribune 11/2/86.

"The light of the truth has been kept burning over the ages and then ignited into flame in Ireland about 100 years ago."

It was started in Ireland and Scotland: Los Angeles Times 9/13/82:  "Richard Wulf, 27, a Two-by-Two worker in Mexico for two years, was asked about this apparent suppression of the sect's origins. 'Near the turn of the century God raised up Godly men in Ireland and Scotland,' Wulf acknowledged. 'We respect them and what they established. But we don't hold to that history and line of succession.' Added Kennedy, a worker spokesman, 'Now we're not following these men, but the New Testament fellowship.'"

In 1981, Willie Propp, Canadian Worker, stated at Silverdale convention, "Irish feet have touched the soil of every continent, bringing the gospel." (NOTE: It follows that it began in Ireland)

"Ireland is the only country where workers weren't imported, but rather exported." Letter of Sydney Holt, California Worker, June 27, 1985

"Some have asked about the beginning of this way.  In 1897, there were two workers that came to Ireland." Dan Sherick, Worker, Boyden, IA Conv, Sept 8-11, 1995.

"Ninety years ago, a letter came from Ireland. We heard about those with no home, no name, etc. Forty people made their choice. Sixteen went out in the work--that was the beginning...There is not a country not open to the gospel now. It is the most marvelous thing ever to happen." ["Ninety years ago" = 1987 Minus 90 years = 1897]Funeral Service for Erling Omdal, Oct. 6, 1987, Eagle Bend, Minnesota, spoken by Garrett Hughes (deceased USA Worker Overseer)

Garrett Hughes also made numerous references from convention platforms in his last years relative to "the beginning of days," first workers, first conventions, etc. One in particular was at Hunter, North Dakota in 1988, 1989 or 1990.  And Garrett would know about these things since his Grandparents were some of the very first to profess in Ireland, in the mission where 40 professed and 16 went in the work. His mother's brother, Willie Gill, became Overseer of England and her two sisters, Emma and Jennie Gill, were the very first sister workers to go out preaching in Irvine's new movement. All three of her siblings went in the work in 1900 and are shown on the 1905 Workers List. Garrett's parents Fred & Mary Ann (Gill) Hughes professed through Wm Irvine in North Dakota.

"It has also been very encouraging to be in a number of the homes of the saints. We are constantly reminded that it was from this cradle that many of our early workers came to us, and so many of these older saints remember them well and have been able to give me interesting details of their early days. Most of the older ones are gone now. Like in our field, a new generation is carrying on the work."  Howard Mooney from Oregon USA visiting Fermanagh, Ireland Convention in June 24-27, 1970(?)

"Some people are saying that this fellowship began in Ireland 100 years ago. Well, that's true, but what's important is OUR beginning - when WE (personally) first found Jesus." Dellas Linneman at W. Aust conv.

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It Started in the New Testament Days; Jesus is the Founder

"This way started in Galilee."  Ned Manning, worker-Irish descent

"We believe we have existed since Jesus sent forth the 70 disciples two by two." Richard Sullivan, 1943

" Some preach a lineage back to Christ, but that's ludicrous."  Randy Satterfield, 1996, Texas & Arkansas Worker

"We are often asked who started this church? Heb. 12:2 'Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith...'Jesus gave us God's eternal plan of salvation in its fullness. He is both the author and finisher." Dan Hilton, deceased Worker, 1/1/84 Burlington, WA Sp. Mtg. 

"Jesus Himself set us up. Whether it was planted in the first century, the 10th century, or the 20th century, the message is the same, it produces the same thing." Tharold Sylvester, (deceased Western USA Overseer) The Bellingham, WA Herald 8/20/83.

"We are not following some way founded in the early 1900's, but it goes clear back to Christ." Tharold Sylvester (deceased Western Overseer) 11/16/83

"You can tell whether a church is a false church or not if it was started by a man or woman. We are the only church on earth that was started by Christ." Jack Carroll, deceased Western USA Overseer and one of the original workers.

"We aren't believing in a religion. We are believing in a life. The life of God and His Son...Everything that is false has a definite origin--a man who started it. Wesley started the Methodist; Joseph Smith started the Mormons; Mary Baker Eddy started the Christian Scientist. This is the only way that was started by Christ." Willie Jamieson, deceased Western USA Overseer and one of the original workers, Post Falls Conv., 1957.

"I never met Wm Irvine at any time and believe he was used of God, but was never the origin of what we believe. I understand he became too big in himself and left the fellowship we love.  Workers I know and respect preach only what Jesus lived and taught with no mention at all of Wm Irvine or any other man save only real appreciation for those who retell in our day things taught in Jesus day. This faith began in New Testament days, not in Ireland nor in the U.K."   Roddy MacLean (Scotland Worker) Letter dated June 1, 1995

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WHEN...?

"People ask us often times, `Where did this doctrine start?' It first came to us over 60 years ago. I thought it started in Canada, because the one that brought the gospel to us was from Canada. We had never heard of it before, and we enquired of him, "Where did you hear this?" He said, `We heard it from someone that came from Ireland or Scotland.' We listened to that Gospel. `Where did it start?'  It started in Heaven, and we are thankful that this Truth came from Heaven that we have accepted today." Clarence Anderson, deceased Worker, Pukekohe Conv., New Zealand, 1986.

"The teachings of the New Testament were started in the first century when God's dear Son was here on earth; that is, those truths were established in a group of believers then...These truths make very clear that what...God's true ministers and Christians believed in, was planned in the heart and mind of God before the world began, and we believe the same today.  So it is 100% false for anyone to say that what we believe was started in some recent year. Letter by Dan Hilton, deceased Worker, 11/21/89

"Some people ask me, when did our church begin. I tell them, 'From the foundation of the world.' " Overseer from one of the Southwest states at Marion Wisconsin Conv. about 2000

"Oh no, this way didn't start 95 years ago. It started in the very heart of God." David Leonhardt, Summer 1996

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Analogies:

TTT Editor's NOTE: A comparison of two items is called an "analogy." The Bible is full of analogies--a parable is an analogy. Comparisons are extremely useful tools that help illustrate points about a previously unknown idea or concept.   The two items being compared must be in the same class; otherwise, the value of an analogy is for illustration purposes only.  An analogy cannot disprove historical facts. Click Here to learn more about Analogies

"The way is like a seed, like the wheat seed. It was created at the beginning of the world." Dan Hilton, Worker.

"Look at it like this. I have no idea who my great-great-grandfather was, but I know that he had to exist, because here I am today.  We know how life begets life and it is the same spiritually.  I do not believe in some form of apostolic succession--that would be like the Catholic church.  People might build their faith on that, but I would like to believe that the friends and ministry did come down through history that way. "  Eldon Kendrew, Canadian Worker, in personal visit w/John & Shawna Mitchell 6/4/95

"It's like a seed. No, better yet, it's like your great-grandmother's recipe. You are looking through your great-grandmother's recipe box and you find a recipe for what you think is a cake that she used to always make that was just wonderful and you wonder, "Is this the one?"  So you make it and YES!  It tastes just exactly the same. It doesn't matter if the recipe has been lost in the box for years and years; you know that it is the recipe for the same cake because it tastes the same."  Eldon Kendrew, Canadian Worker in personal visit w/John & Shawna Mitchell 6/4/95

"The scripture teaches that God's way began in eternity. The Lord possessed me, speaking of Jesus, in the beginning of His way before His works were.  That's what's began, Dale. One of the simplest answers that I can give is that it began when 2 and 2 became 4...That's right.  It began with God and it has always been, 2 and 2 have always been 4.  And I could go back in my experience, maybe for when I first knew that 2 and 2 was 4, but that's not when 2 and 2 became 4.  And I could go back in my mother's experience when it likely first became aware to her that 2 and 2 was 4, but that wasn't when it became 4.  So we can go back and we don't have to trace it generation to generation back to the beginning.  The fact that we find 2 and 2, 4 today helps me to appreciate that it was in the beginning."  Willis Propp, Canadian Worker, April, 1992, visit with Dale & Joyce Wesenberg.

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Diversions:

"I am not answering these questions, because I don't believe to do so would profit you. 80 years ago I decided to go forth and preach as Jesus sent the Apostles...I find it more profitable to exercise my mind to seek to abide in Jesus, as said in John 15, rather than tracing the origin of the little streams that made up the river which we have enjoyed travelling on."  Letter by George Walker, dated November 27, 1979, deceased Eastern USA Overseer who pioneered the group in America.

"It was before my time, (Ben) Klepzig says, "No one here claims to have started it."  Owner of Georgetown, Texas, convention grounds, The Sunday Sun, Georgetown, Texas July 14, 1991.

"Personally, I have never been taken up with endless genealogies or other things that Paul warned against in I Tim. 1:3-4. My satisfaction is in the fact that the Lord has given to me all that he has promised." Howard Mooney, Oregon Overseer

"I always say don't criticize unless you have something better to offer. I haven't heard that they have anything better to offer." Mary Hasper, deceased Worker, Bellingham Herald.

"I don't regard it as hidden information. I've known about it for years--what makes you think it has been hidden?"  Jim Price, 1990, Texas & SD Worker

"Some friends have asked me about our history. There is no profit in that. That's not what our faith and foundation should be in. The rock of our foundation, the beginning of our faith, is in the author and finisher of our faith, Jesus Christ." Overseer from Michigan, at Hunter North Dakota Conv. about 1998.

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It's Not Important (Minimizing Significance):

"It all happened over 100 years ago, how could it matter now?"
"The history of this fellowship isn't doctrine."
"What difference does it make?"
"It isn't relevant today."
"Now why are you worrying about that? You don't need to concern yourself about that at all."
"Well, everything has to begin sometime...."

"So what if the truth came from Greece, Italy or Macedonia to England.  What does it matter, the fact is it came, and we are ever so grateful. Why would I waste precious time pondering where they came from and how?"

"There was no reason to tell you!  Why would we tell you something like that. It is a matter of faith."  Eldon Kendrew to Mitchells 6/4/95

"You sound rather disturbed about something to do with a man called William Irvine. I do believe he served God in sincerity and truth at one time. What happened I've never asked because our life doesn't really revolve round any person but around Jesus...I'm sure your faith isn't built on the rights or wrongs of men but the simple right or truth in Jesus...Don't worry needlessly about things really that don't come into this matter of our salvation."  Helen Phimister (Scotland Worker), Letter dated June 15, 1995

"It doesn't really matter. All that matters is that we are building on the same foundation as Christ, and we know we are." Lorraine Lerwick, Worker

"Irvine's founding role is of little consequence, for we alone follow the true pattern of the original apostles, and the early church." Gordon McNabb (The Secret Sect)

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Denials & Omissions:

"This is NOT made by a man! So get that out of your head!"  Frank Porter, 1995

"Oh no, this way didn't start 95 years ago.  It started in the very heart of God."  David Leonhardt, 1996

"Many men have started many different religions, but this faith that we believe in--we don't know who started it.  But keep yourselves sanctified so that if anyone should question you concerning this faith, that you can give them the right answers."  Gilbert Richter, Worker Overser,1990 Seneca, IL conv.

"I advise you to drop your investigation." Edward Blair to Jim Vail

Q: "How did the first worker get saved? "
A: "That's a good question."

Woman asked one of the older brother workers if he had heard of Wm Irvine.
The worker: "Well, I don't think I can talk about him..."
The woman:  "Well, have you heard of him or haven't you?"
The worker: "I can't hear you very well, my hearing is getting so bad."

"Some have asked when this way first got started.  I don't know the answer to that.  All I know is that in MY family it started in 1904, when Irvine Weir came to California

."  Harry Brownlee, Hunter, ND conv., 1995 (TTT Editor's Note: Harry Brownlee's parents, Clyde & Grace, were the first to profess in the Western USA.  His father even went to preach temporarily with Irvine Weir who went there without a companion.)

"Q:. Would you kindly give me the origin and history of your organisation?
Ans:. The religious world has passed through many stages of apostasy and reformation, since Christ and His apostles established Christianity upon the earth, but we have no reason to think, nor right to say that God has not at all times been able to preserve a true seed in the world, a seed or people who have always looked beyond form or schism and creed back to the Way and Truth of Christ. Back to Christianity in its purity and simplicity, back to the living Christianity which was very much more than a creed, back to the Christlike humble sacrificing ministry as exemplified in the New Testament apostles, back to a Christianity which refused all conformity to the world.

But (perhaps as a sign that the world is nearing the return of the Lord to the earth) there has in recent years been a very real and distinct turning of the minds and hearts of men and women towards its simplicity and purity of early Christianity. This is undoubtedly attributable to what we may call the modernisation of Christianity, the lack of clear unequivocal preaching of the Gospel of Christ, the tendency of holding only a head belief in Christ, instead of a faith which leads to true discipleship, questionable ways of raising money for religious work, flirtation with the world in its pleasures, sins and fashions, and other things which the Bible says would prevail in the last days.

The foundation and authorship of this movement cannot be attributed to any one man or number of men but is the result of reaching after Truth, during a number of years, of many men. Many no doubt have been unwilling for the sacrifice, when their minds were turned back to the lowly way of Christ, but others have been willing to sacrifice everything in their desire to get back to the simplicity and sincerity of the early Christianity and to lead others to do likewise.

This is our aim--it is heartily welcomed by some but hated by others. This is as simply as I can put the case although our desire to follow the one Lord and to preach his Gospel binds us into a very real fellowship, we have either any headquarters on earth nor a Headman . Our preachers are all on the same level (as Christ said they should be) and so we desire to be known only as Christians or followers of Christ." [37 Questions & Answers by Overseer of South Australia & New Zealand, Willie Hughes, April 23, 1931]

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