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REPRESENTING THE LARGEST COLLECTION OF 2X2 HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS ON THE INTERNET
The REAL TRUTH about "the truth"
Life and Ministry of William Irvine
CHAPTERS
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
Chapter Index
Chapter 2
1893
Revised 2/10/07
1893: Wm. Irvine "Began
To Serve The Lord"
1893: Wm. Irvine attends Revival by Rev. John McNeill
1893: Wm. Irvine attends Bible Training
Institute
Chapter 2
William Irvine "Began to Serve the Lord"
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“1893, on January 8, I decided for the Lord and the battle began. I
was thirty years of age on 7th of January, so that I began my thirty-first year
by deciding whom I would serve and whom I would not.” (October
13, 1920 Letter to Dunbars)
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“I’m now in my 84th year, and 53 years ago last night at 8:00
p.m. I said I would serve the Lord, no matter what it meant or cost, with no
if, or but in the conditions.” (January
9, 1946 Letter to Laurel Woods) [NOTE: Year 1946 minus 53 years =
1/8/1893]
"The very disadvantage of professing through John McNeill, and then taking the way of believing in Jesus as my Pattern and Master..." (August 16, 1939 Letter by Wm Irvine to Edwards)
"53 years ago tonight as I write to you, I saw there was no hope of salvation but by surrender to the Lord I had been hearing about from childhood, any more than there was of crossing the Atlantic without a ship, Captain and compass. So I settled and began to witness to my choice at any cost. It was a surprise to me, for the more I tried to conform to the religious regime, the more I found defeat in them and me. When I look back, it’s been a stormy voyage – but to find life and light, and Jesus as a good pattern, power and guide." ( January 8, 1946 Letter to Pincetl & Sutter)
Speaking about William Irvine, Goodhand Pattison wrote in Accounts of the Early Days: "He attributed his own conversion to the instrumentality of (Rev) John McNeill, who about and before that time had been a leading light (evangelistic) belonging to but not confined to the Presbyterian body in Scotland."
Patricia Roberts records Irvine’s profession in her book: The Life and Ministry of Edward Cooney, on Page 12. Joe Kerr, one of the first workers, stated in a Letter dated January 28, 1956: “. . .for I believe I was saved before I met the ‘Testimony,’ and I know that William Irvine professed through the Rev. John McNeill.”
Wm Irvine wrote: “72 Years ago I was born into a Presbyterian family; 42 years ago I was born into the family of which Jesus is the head, as Adam is of the human family. A Presbyterian preacher was the means. He told me the right thing—to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” (January 8, 1934 Letter to Mr. Billett)
According to Patricia Roberts, Fred Wood met Edward Cooney in 1916 and went out to preach soon after, with Edward and those associated with him. He spent the following 20 years preaching in Spain, in South America, and the British Isles...until 1938, when he married one of his own converts and they made their home in Ireland. The local church met in their home. They were Edward Cooney's staunchest supporters, and when Edward Cooney was excommunicated in 1928, Fred was one of the very few workers who supported him. At the age of 97, Fred Wood died on September 11, 1986. (Selected Letters of Fred Wood 1890-1986). Fred Wood recalled memories of Ed Cooney and William Irvine:
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"...William Irvine...says he professed through the Reverend John McNeill.
He's a man I heard in my teens in the Congregational Church long before I met
Edward (Cooney). He was a tremendous preacher! He'd bang down the
Bible. He had a lovely lot of hair, black hair...and that was the man
William Irvine claimed to profess through in Motherwell in Scotland...William
Irvine professed through the preaching of the Rev. John McNeill, a Presbyterian
minister, in Motherwell, Scotland.“ (Selected
Letters of Fred Wood, Edited by Patricia Roberts, Page 59)
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“. . .William Irvine...says he professed through the Reverend
John McNeill. He's a man I heard in my teens in the Congregational Church
long before I met Edward (Cooney). He was a tremendous preacher!
He’d bang down the Bible. He had a lovely lot of hair, black hair.
. . and that was the man William Irvine claimed to profess through in Motherwell
in Scotland.” (From Transcript of Early
Memories by Fred Wood)
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“An attempt has been made to give an account of God’s dealings
with us ignoring William Irvine. This is not honest. William Irvine was
born again when a Presbyterian through hearing John McNeal preach the gospel
in Motherwell Town Hall, and I have in my possession a letter from him to me
claiming this to be so, written from Jerusalem before he died. After his conversion
he joined The Faith Mission, and was Pilgrim Irvine when I first met him in
Borresokane, County Tipperary, Ireland.” (Selected
Letters, Hymns and Poems of Edward Cooney 1867-1960 by Patricia
Roberts, page 44; also printed in The
Secret Sect by Doug & Helen Parker, page 115.)
How can we find out whether or not these reports are true? First, the feasibility should be checked out by proving or disproving the details of the reports. It should be discovered whether or not it was even possible for William Irvine to profess through Rev. John McNeill in the Town Hall of Motherwell, Scotland when he was 30. This could be checked out by:
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(1) Verifying that there was a Town Hall in Motherwell in 1893
(2) Verifying that a Rev. John McNeill existed in 1893
(3) Verifying that Rev. McNeill was in Motherwell conducting services in 1893
(4) Verifying when Wm Irvine said he was converted
(1) Verifying that there was a Town Hall in Motherwell in 1893; The
place where this event is said to have taken place, the Town Hall building at
Motherwell, Lanarkshire, Scotland, definitely existed. In fact, it is still standing
and was being used for a Snooker Club in 1995. A
Researcher took this picture in 1995. Accoridng to a search on the internet, the site is being used in 2010 as "The Zone" which is a family entertainment center. The Motherwell Town Hall is located Southeast of Glasgow at 60 Hamilton Road , Motherwell, Lanarkshire, Scotland ML1 1BB; Telephone:: 01698 261728. Click here to view website for Motherwell.
(2) Verifying that a Rev. John McNeill existed in 1893;
Was there any such person as a Rev. McNeill? And if so, what kind
of preacher was he? Commissioned by Rev. McNeill's wife, Alexander
Gammie wrote the official biography titled Rev. John McNeill, His
Life and Work, published by Pickering & Inglis, London, Great
Britain. This book can usually be obtained by special request through
the inter-library loan program of your local library.
Rev. McNeill’s biography states he resigned as minister of Regent Square Church and accepted an invitation to become associated with evangelist D. L. Moody’s campaigns. In 1892, he began his evangelistic work in Scotland, which continued for 15 years. At the time William Irvine professed through Rev. McNeill in Scotland, he was affiliated with Dwight L. Moody’s evangelistic campaigns. Chapter VI “Sixteen Years’ Evangelising” records on page 113: “He travelled north, south, east and west in Scotland, England and Ireland, meeting everywhere with a wonderful response.”
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“In the homeland, on his return, he was constantly on tour practically
from Land’s End to John o’ Groat’s, preaching not only in great centres
of population, but also in the small villages and country districts until
there was scarcely a corner of the land where the voice of John McNeill
had not been heard. In many parts of Ireland, he had some memorable missions.
Obviously, it would be impossible to give here a detailed record of his
various campaigns or even of all the places he visited. In any case, it
would be the same experience everywhere of crowded congregations and of
powerful preaching, in which pathos and humour and evangelical earnestness
combined to make a profound and an abiding impression.” (Rev. John
McNeill, His Life and Work by Alexander Gammie, page 123)
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“. . .but in their eyes Puncheon and Spurgeon were wrong; Rev. John
McNeill; Rev. Hugh Price Hughes were wrong; George Clarke, Rev. Henry Montgomery,
Rev. Crawford Johnson—all these and other men were all wrong, and the
Pilgrims only are right!” (Impartial
Reporter, January 29, 1903)
(4) Verifying when the party involved, Wm. Irvine, SAID he was converted. What did William Irvine have to say about when and through whom he professed? He stated in various letters that he somewhat unexpectedly began to take a real interest in religion in 1893:
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“I was 30 before I took any interest in finding what was spoken in
the Book. . . I followed the blind leaders of the blind til I was 30. . .”
(May 6, 1928 Letter to Mattes)
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“Born on the 7th; born again on the 8th. . .” (January
9, 1937 Letter Jones & Landrys)
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“As I write I am finishing my 83rd year and begin my 84th tomorrow
7th of January. On 8th of January I began to serve the Lord, quite unexpectedly.
It was more a surprise to me than any other.” (January
6, 1946 Letter to Cantrils)
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“7 days into my 84th year and 54 years since I became His servant,
which to me was a surprise, and has been more so during these years; for now
I can see Jesus had it all planned, and prophesied of, though I was all along
quite ignorance and innocent.” (January
14, 1946 Letter to Wm. and Mary Loitz)
“I began my 84th year on 7th January, and my 54th as the Son of Man, though I had not the slightest idea of who I was or what it all meant in giving the world the Alpha Gospel—up to 1914 when Judgment began and my eyes were opened to see what Revelation meant.” (January 28, 1946 letter to Craigs)
EDITOR'S COMMENTS: It was definitely possible, as well as feasible, and is reasonably safe to assume that the common-knowledge report is true that William Irvine was converted when he was 30 in Rev. John McNeill's mission held in Motherwell Town Hall, Scotland, in January 1893. It could have happened, and in all likelihood, it took place, as was reported. It is doubtful so many details from so many varied sources would all dovetail so perfectly if it had not taken place. Mere coincidence is not likely.
1893: PRESBYTERIAN EVANGELIST JOHN McNEILL. From Alexander Gammie's biography of Rev. John McNeill titled Rev. John McNeill His Life and Work, the following additional details were collected which clearly show that John McNeill was never a worker in this fellowship. This official biography was undertaken at the request of Mrs. McNeill and the publishers Pickering & Inglis. This book may be obtained by special request through the interlibrary loan program, at no cost to the borrower.
John McNeill was born on July 7, 1854 in Houston, a typical Scottish village in Renfrewshire to Katie McTaggart and John McNeill. His father worked in a quarry and was Superintendent of Sunday School of Somerville Church. When John was 12, they moved to Inverkip where John grew up. He went to work at 15 at the railway station as gateboy and assistant porter. When he was about 19, he wrote Rev. Peter Douglas of the Inverkip Free Church:
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"Then I remember one evening I wrote Rev. Douglas saying that I
was not greatly anxious, but that I did feel I ought to decide, for if
I did not decide for Christ, the world wouldn't allow me to be half-hearted.
I quoted to him the text, `Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt
be saved,' and added I believe in Jesus Christ. I am no atheist or blasphemer.
I believe all about Him, but I do not feel one bit the better."
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"My dear John, you will never know...how glad I am to get such a
frank letter from you about salvation...Now I put it this way: Which am
I to believe? You, who pronounce your own verdict on yourself, and say
you cannot be saved because you do not feel any the better? Or am I to
believe God speaking in His Word and pronouncing His verdict, and saying
that if you believe in Christ, as you say you do, you are saved, and you
will be saved for ever?"
He also became a member of the Young Men's Christian Association (YMCA). As an active member, he developed a love of open-air preaching and of mission work generally, which ultimately became the passion of his life. The YMCA Vice-President was so convinced that John should be in the ministry that he helped to finance his education at the Edinburgh University. Before long, he married Susan Spiers Scott. After he had been at Edinburgh University three years, the couple moved to Glasgow where he took the remaining five years of his training at Glasgow University. He earned his livelihood doing missionary work for Bernard's Free Church.
After completing his studies, he was ordained a minister with the McCrie-Roxburgh Church, Edinburgh in July 1886, where John McNeill suddenly burst into fame and the people flocked to hear him: rich and poor, educated and illiterate. On February 28, 1889, he was inducted to the ministry of Regent Square Presbyterian Church, London. His wife died July 9, 1891, of pleuro-pneumonia, just three weeks after giving birth to their fourth child.
John was approached by J. Campbell White (soon to become Lord Overtoun) with the following offer: "Here we are, two Christian men deeply interested and engaged in Gospel work. Our Master has given me money, and He has given you preaching, and yours is the greater gift. Why should not we go into partnership? I will undertake to relieve you of worldly cares, and you will go wherever you will, preaching the Gospel."
John accepted Lord Overtoun's offer and resigned as minister of Regent Square Church. He accepted an invitation to become associated with evangelist D. L. Moody's campaigns, and in 1892, began his evangelistic work in Scotland, which was to continue for 15 years. At the time William Irvine heard him and professed, Rev. McNeill was affiliated with Dwight L. Moody's evangelistic campaigns.
Chapter VI "Sixteen Years' Evangelising" records on page 113: "He travelled north, south, east and west in Scotland, England and Ireland, meeting everywhere with a wonderful response."
Quote from page 123: "In the homeland, on his return, he was constantly on tour practically from Land's End to John o' Groat's, preaching not only in great centres of population, but also in the small villages and country districts until there was scarcely a corner of the land where the voice of John McNeill had not been heard. In many parts of Ireland, he had some memorable missions. Obviously, it would be impossible to give here a detailed record of his various campaigns or even of all the places he visited. In any case, it would be the same experience everywhere of crowded congregations and of powerful preaching, in which pathos and humour and evangelical earnestness combined to make a profound and an abiding impression."
For nearly seven years after his wife died, John continued to carry his message all over the world...returning only for brief intervals to be with his four children. In July of 1898, he married Margaret Lee Millar.
The financial arrangement into which Lord Overtoun and John had entered some 16 years previously had been faithfully observed, but there had been no formal written agreement between them. On February 15, 1908, Lord Overtoun died, without making any written provision for the arrangement to continue. At 54, John McNeill was suddenly left without any means to support his evangelistic tours, wife and large family. He accepted an invitation to be the pastor of Christ Church Westminster Bridge Road, London.
The Rev. John McNeill died in his sleep on April 19, 1933. Funeral services were held in three locations: at Regent Square Church in London; at George's Parish Church in Glasgow; at Charlotte Chapel in Edinburgh.
A photograph inserted after Page 192 titled "A Group of Speakers at the Keswick Convention 1929" pictures Rev. John McNeill.
In summary, John McNeill:
1) Accepted Christ at age 19, through Rev. Peter Douglas of Inverkip
Free Church,
2) Began his Presbyterian ministerial studies at age 23 at Edinburgh
and Glasgow Universities
3) July, 1886 accepted a pastoral position with McCrie-Roxburgh Church,
Edinburgh
4) 1892 to 1908 was a traveling evangelist in Moody's campaigns
5) Sept, 1908 accepted a pastoral position with Christ Church Westminster
Bridge Road, London
6) Died April, 1933.
Clearly, Rev. John McNeill was never affiliated with a group or movement similar to the 2x2 fellowship.
His son and wife, Archie and Evangeline McNeill, developed the Cannon Beach Conference Center in Oregon. Their daughter is Heather Goodenough.
EDITOR'S NOTE: The John McNeill on the 1905 Workers List is not one and the same person as the Rev John McNeill above.
1893, NOVEMBER 1: Concerning his resignation from his position at the colliery (a coal mine), William Irvine wrote:
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“How vividly it brought back what was taking place twenty-seven years
ago when I was leaving on a wild goose chase, as he thought. He knew I was made
of the stuff he needed so badly then, and he did his very best for months to
keep me from doing it. . . five days after (his conversion)
I gave public testimony to the men over whom I was taskmaster. . . In September,
1893, I sent in my resignation for the colliery and got free first of November.”
(October 13, 1920
Letter to Dunbars)
“When Mr. Irvine, at the age of thirty, decided to make Jesus his master, he was a big businessman, with a thousand men under him; the greatest of them connected with that business had to look up to Wm Irvine and take counsel from him, but he said in his heart, from this time Jesus is going to be my Master, and I am going to be His servant to obey and follow the rest of my life. One of the first things he did was to gather these men together, and tell them in simple, plain words of the choice he had made, and many were mightily moved and made to think seriously as they never had before. How many who laughed and mocked then, did he live to see cut down suddenly while others went on to their doom and cried and prayed, but too late. Forty-seven years ago, [1894] he faced the world alone, standing for what Jesus lived and taught with no place for the traditions or religions of men, and today he has gathered in the various parts of the world a number who are to him what the disciples were to Jesus...” (W. Edwards letter to Baltimore Friends, July 6, 1941)
1893: BIBLE TRAINING INSTITUTE. John Long wrote in his Journal: "After spending two years in the Bible Training Institute, Glasgow, he joined the Faith Mission..." Also: "He entered John Anderson's classes in the Bible Training Institute, Glasgow A.D. 1894."
Goodhand Pattison wrote in Accounts of the Early Days, “Sometime after his conversion, W.I. spent a term of some years I think, in what is known as the ‘Bible Institute’, meanwhile getting to know some of the aims and working of the F.M. (Faith Mission), he determined to throw in his lot with them, as being the best he could see. . .” The following statement of Wm. Irvine has been understood to mean that the Bible college refused him admission, so he sat in the back of the class and listened in:
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“...was not satisfied with my knowledge of the book. . . In September
they refused to receive me as a student in the Bible Training Institute, Glasgow,
though I attended the classes from outside. . . I benefited in the Bible Institute
by getting to know the book according to the teachings of the best and most
holy and evangelical missionary people in the world.”(October
13, 1920 Letter to Dunbars).
.
STREET CORNER EVANGELIST: Apparently William tried his hand at being a street corner evangelist for a time. William Cleland, a cousin of Wm Irvine, and one of the early workers, said:
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“William Irvine was a peculiar character; he was a man who liked
to have the place and the show. He was also a man who was recognized from around
the village from which he came as being extremely enthusiastic and partially
unbalanced. When Bill spoke at the meetings on the streets of Kilsyth there
was usually quite a bit of amusement among the people listening. They knew Bill,
his character especially, and they had very little faith in him.”
(The Secret Sect,
Page 9, Footnote 2)
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